What happens next?

[DawnUK]

Hi,

At this time, this is purely a hyperthetical question......but what happens if (as is suggested) our new government is adamant its going to get as many people off IB as it can soon, and they want to put (get you)on job seekers allowance?  Speaking for myself, I know what I can and can't do, and I know, choose what they want me to believe, that I am definitely not capable of working....but they boot you off IB....what then?? are you left without any income or can you get income support till this debacle is sorted out.?...

Like a lot of people with ME, Im just sat here waiting for them to start on me......haing read whats happening, its only a matter of time....

Its like having a dark cloud hanging over you.....you can see its going to come, you just don't know when.....dont get me wrong, they have every right to oik us in if they want but its annoying when you know that all thats on their agenda, is saving money...no matter how..... seems like they have brainwashed themselves in thinking if they want it all to go away... then it will.............if only it were that simple!

meanwhile, back in the real world, and a heap of grief later....folk have to battle hard to prove their condition...not just once but over and over(over they years)...

sorry for the rant but it really gets my back up at times.

(insert smiley whipping its self with twigs)

 

[agapanthus]

I can quite understand you speculating on this one Dawn and having a rant - you are not alone! I follow the BBC's Ouch disability site (which of course covers all kinds of disabilities) and people on there have commented on the whole ESA thing, as they see what is happening now and fear for their futures.

I have asked on a couple of sites the question you are asking .. though for those who are now failing ESA (including an appeal) .. what is happening to these people? No one seems to know for sure.

The mental health charities for example are very worried about it all as their clients are especially vulnerable and with so much in the press being aimed at "scroungers" and those on disability benefits in particular it is a worrying time.

However there is one thing happening at the moment - did you see the post yesterday on the item in the Guardian? There is an urgent review into the ESA tests:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/jul/27/benefits-health-test-review
We can only hope that this will help things somewhat.

I think in your shoes I would be making sure that I have medical people (GP and specialists) on my side for when the time comes for reports etc. That will make a difference at the appeal at least. The original assessments done by ATOS are deeply flawed but the appeal is done by human beings who at least you can spell out the facts to. Many people are winning their appeals (40% without representation and 70% with).

As for those who do not ultimately win and have to go to the Jobcentre. Well ... about 4 years ago I was in this kind of situation. I could not work full time - I knew this, though I had not been diagnosed with ME/CFS then. My GP wrote me out a small certificate telling the Jobcentre that I could only work part time and not travel further than my local town. At the time this was accepted by them.

If you have a disability recognised by the DDA then they have to acknowledge that I would think, whatever ATOS have to say and therefore your possible work has to be restricted because of that disability. I would say that you are still able to claim "reasonable adjustments" and get help from their Disability advisor (if they still have one!).

The difference is that they have taken a wodge of money away from you from your IB and can pay you much less with JSA while you search for an employer who might take you on such restricted terms. I have even heard of cases where the Jobcentre are unhappy to have people signing on who they can see are unfit for work.

I have to admit that this is all speculation on my part and I am unsure how it is working. For sure there are going to be a huge number in this situation though and they will overwhelm Jobcentres who are cutting staff too!

[DawnUK]

Thanks for your in depth reply ....

But if the worst comes to the worst, what about income support? (if your clearly not "fit" for work still) I think I did read a thread somewhere where one person said that they were still deemed 'unfit to work', even tho they were binned from IB/ESA, therefore they were put onto I.S. till it was sorted out....(they were deemed unable to get IB or ESA, but not Income Support) as you rightly say, I.S also pays much less than IB....something like 30 quid a week less?....

hope i make sense....umm ...

[agapanthus]

Yes I think this may be true at the moment re Income Support but if in effect it was being phased out because of ESA I do wonder about the future. I think maybe the plans are to simplify the whole benefits system anyway. It is worrying if people are left with no safety net and I foresee some horrible situations that could happen if common sense does not prevail.

If you look up Income Support on the official pages there is very little there now:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/On_a_low_income/DG_10018708

What I suspect is happening at the moment is that some DWP staff at Jobcentres are already appalled by some of the people in front of them who have been told that they are fit for work and maybe some of these are being sidelined onto Income Support .... but after IB has been abolished - who knows?

[DawnUK]

I suppose, as you say, all we can do is sit tight and hope sense prevails....

If you look back over the last 25/30 years....how many times have successive governments come into power and said that they are going to do this that and the other?

What usually happens is, they change somethings name, alter it a bit and at the end of the day, nothing really changes.....not that much.....

But with this being a coalition government, this may not be the case, who knows...plus also the alleged state of the country....this alleged state of affairs may give them the carte-blanche to swipe things away for once and for all?,,,,, its interesting to see that, however bad things seem to be in this country, we can still afford the olympic games I see.....do you all know how much that is going to cost? let us say in the region of billions rather than millions!....

It was the same with the "Dome".... we had to have it.....to the detriment of lots of more worthy things....its definitely a case of fur coat and no knickers mentality I feel....anyhoo whatever happens they will do what they are going to do, I reckon. 

I read somehwhere today though, lets not forget it was the last government that set this ball rolling re the reforms....but at the same time, now this lot are in power its up to them to axe bad decisions, lets hope they see that all this is a bad decision.

All that said, they are all as bad as eachother....

[mothernurture]

The other issue of course is that if you live alone you can claim jobseekers allowance, but not if you have a working partner. my husband lost his job a year ago and now has a new one which is very poorly paid. we couldnt live without the benefits that i get from ESA, but if this was taken away i would not qualify for JSA as he works. our income with three children is abut what you would get if you were on benefits anyway, so if i lose my ESA we will be royally f*?*!d.

[agapanthus]

Quite so mn. I found myself in this postion about 3 years ago when I did get JSA for 6 months based on my National Insurance contributions but after 6 months that was it - as they then take into account the partner's income for JSA.

No wonder they want people off IB and ESA - saves them a stash of cash doesn't it?

[Beowulf1976]

One thing that angers me. REALLY angers me...

Where the f**k are all these jobs going to come from for all the people that they are booting off benefits, aren't we in enough crap at the moment with our state of unemployment without increasing it further?

I would understand if we were searching for people to fill the jobs, but as we're searching for jobs to fit the people why are we as a country forcing more people to look for work that isn't bloody there?!

[DawnUK]

 I know..........thats what a lot of people even on the news, have been saying...theres about a million jobs? and how many fit people after them are we up to now already? 3 million is it?.....

Its just not going to stack up, is it?

Who in their right mind is going to "employ" anyone, when you turn round and say "Well, I can get in, probably the first day, but I can't guarrentee Ill be here after that, and, oh, Ive been off work for the last 6 years with ME/CFS, Im going to need an hour or two's kip at dinnertime to re-charge my batteries n all, and if I still feel ropey then, Ill have to go home, is that ok with you?".....

Yeah, they'll be qeueing up to employ you good and propper.........one job centre employee even said on the news a year or 2 back, that if you have been off sick for more than 6 weeks, you could well be totally "unemployable", as far as a future employee will look at your case/history....

so someone somewhere is living in cloud cookoo land i think.....

must be nice....living in cloud cookoo land......with rose tinted speks.....

all this is all very well, but for one thing.....they are messing with people who can't take stress....(hence the rants) its actually doing more harm to such as us.....it like its almost a deliberate act, because they know how all this affects people like us.....i put down on my IB40 thing when I last filled it in that the slightest stress and .... well..I just can't take it basically.....it affect your stomach....give you the trotts....yada yada you know the score ...



(shakes head)

[mothernurture]

here, here. nuff said i think!